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17 comments:
So, on your tumbleweed trip thru Fla, were you checking out your future plans?
My goal now is to get out of debt for college and seminary-- saving for retirement or where I might retire is not even on my mind. But the way you describe this place it sounds alot like college or seminary life which I do miss.
A question I have is if my generation ever will be able to retire at all--we'll be paying the huge bill for your generation who is also giving us a huge deficit to pay for in the future along with huge monthly payments for the next 30 years to finance Social Security for baby boomers who are already rich.
Something is wrong here and if everything collapses my generation has little to lose (other than debt) --sometimes I just say let it collapse.
Funny article, I can vouch for a lot of that, being a 22 year resident of Brooksville. Weird place to grow up. :) Even though I'm 27, I remember the village back in 85', when they had revivals in the old "Elliot Auditorium", I thought it was a barn as a kid...Funny thing is that the only thing that hasn't changed much in the village is that church, where a lot of Wesleyan big shots, have had their dads pastor.....Bray when I first started going there and then Jay Deneff took over in the late 80's, early 90's..... Keith, if you retire and take that job in several years, it's a done deal that your kids will make it big. LOl
I've never been there, so this "objection" could very well be baseless. But I would like to see how you tackle it:
Men and women who have walked with the Lord for many years (such as the folks at Brooksville) surely have so much wisdom to share. By concentrating themselves in one place, aren't they isolating themselves from people who could benefit most from that wisdom? I mean, couldn't local churches across the continent and around the globe stand to benefit so much from having veterens of the faith in their midst?
CURIOUS: Not particularly. When I left headquarters I bought a building lot there (next to where Dan Chamberlain built) but sold it in a few years... in the decade since leaving headquarters I've grown about two decades younger so not heading south very soon.
CHAD: You raise a great point that I need to address in my political blog. Not only do boomers get it all--they spent it all.
JOSH: HA! Not likely...when I retire I plan to retire...and my kids seem to need no help from me--my career needs their help. ;-)
ANON: Yep, that's why 92% of the retirees stay behind and do not move at retirement... so you have plenty left behind... so, plan ways to get this wisdom passed on is you are really serious about this (besides piling them all up in the old people's classes and in prayer meeting while everything else is age-stratified.)
Funny stuff. The denomination I grew up in had a retirement village, but I didn't realize how common they were in other denominations. It was good to hear about that dynamic from another denomination and especially to hear the jokes.
Oddly, this is a topic that is kind of interesting.
Your impressions match mine, having grown up making multiple trips a year to Brooksville throughout the 70's and 80's (I remember sneeking into the old Elliott building to jump on discarded mattresses, if it's the one I'm thinking of). Talk about retirement not being an end to activity!
One thing I wouldn't like about Brooksville is that everyone knows your business--not just that of the broader church.
The most amusing thing about the place I think are the love lives--including the feeding frenzy whenever someone's spouse dies! A person with good genes could have three or four wives/husbands in the time they lived there!
I could never go to Brooksville...because I'm not Roman Catholic enough! Something about the idea of a holding place where the saints got to await entrance to heaven...I don't know...but I will light a candle for the souls who are waiting there. :)
My theological jokes may not be worth a laught, but I'm sitting heere chuckling at a phrase in your article:
"Brooksville is a virtual homepage for this stuff!"
I recall when it was en vogue to talk about duplicating everything from our physical world in a "virtual" form (ie.with the word "virtual" heavily laden with all sorts of vague futuristic yearnings--ie. "with amazing digital intternet technology--with 3D headgear if we can!!").
Now we've come full circle. The internet has cultural meaning on its own merits, and Drury tells me that a group of retired men sitting around sharing info over coffee constitute a "virtual homepage." I love it!
I only visited Brooksville once but it was not an inactive place when I was there--many of those folk are more active than my middle aged people who seem worn out all the time and seldom do anything for others. It is incredible what a person can do when they have no job!
I've never been to Brooksville, but your article reminds me of Beulah Camp up here on the Atlantic District. It's turning from a summer camp into a retirement village little by little every year. Every argument (except the one about it being too hot) sounds like something my parents might have said a couple of years ago... But now they're actually thinking of moving there themselves. Funny how your perspective changes over time isn't it? Oh well, if my folks move there, then I don't have to renovate the cottage in 35 or 40 years when I retire. I'll have a home waiting for me... Except I'll probably make those same arguments myself for a few years first.
My grandparents go down to Brooksville for a few months every year. The idea of saints congregating and "waiting to get into heaven" is really sad to me. While we are living on earth, I don't think God calls us ever to retire or ever to cease using our time to spread the gospel to a lost world.
At IWU, we are taught to be "Roaring Lambs" by choosing careers in (esentially) all areas of society. Why should the mandate to be salt and light stop once we get old?
Until we're dead, we should keep living, laboring, and volunteering side by side with unbelievers. What good is salt if it's all in the salt shaker and not flavoring the world with God's truth?
Hopefully, Brooksville has a lot of outreach into the community around it. In that case, there may be merit to penning in and maintaining an army of saints ready for evangelism. Otherwise, I'm afraid it is a great waste of saints who are forgetting a dying world.
I am LOL at these IWU types who condemn a lot of Christians gathering together in one spot to eat and sleep and play and fellowship in one place while mostly attending one local church where there is good good preaching and minor outreach to the town? Are you kidding me????
ROBIN: Intriguing story supporting the point of my article. that's what I've noted too: the arguments given at one stage of life are valid for people at that stage, but when they arrive at another stage those arguments seem so immature. While I continue to love icy cold winters, I suppose it is possible that some day I might consider that an "immature view of a guy in his 60's" Of course, I could always come to Beulah where I could have the icy winters and the other six bennies too! ;-)
The question is not why not to retire at Brooksville... the question is; Why Retire!
Gerry asks, "Why Retire".
One reason is to make room for younger pastors to lead. But Gerry may represent what is actually going to happen-- boomer ministers won't EVER retire. They will hold on to all their senior pastor roles and good churches and all their DS and GS jobs right into their 70's and maybe even 80's, then they'll just die.
The one possibe good effect of this is we won't have to grow up until we are all in our 50's.
Good point Chad; there is a time for Moses to give the staff to Joshua. But there are other places and positions of ministry that the older ministers could fill. Wouldn't it be wonderful for younger pastors to fill lead pastor position and bring on an older pastor as a mentor/associate pastor?! Just a thought.
In response to my earlier post on January 4, Pastor Karl said:
"I am LOL at these IWU types who condemn a lot of Christians gathering together in one spot to eat and sleep and play and fellowship in one place while mostly attending one local church where there is good good preaching and minor outreach to the town? Are you kidding me????"
In response to Pastor Karl's comment, I have to point out that for many IWUers, the time at IWU is a time of preparation for the purpose of leaving the Christian bubble to engage the culture. That's what time in the Christian bubble should be all about.
(However, I do realize that God does call some to remain mostly within the "bubble" for the purpose of equipping other Christians.)
I realize that my January 4 post was quite finger-pointing and sounded very preachy, and I apologize. Pastor Karl, I think that you bring up a good point. Even in the midst of their time of preparation, I believe that IWU students could definitely interact with Marion more. When I was at IWU, I was guilty of that as well. However, I believe there is much merit in having a season of life devoted to discipleship. Just so that it is a SEASON.
The question with Brooksville is what is the purpose of going there? because it's fun? because it feels good to have fellowship? I'm all for fellowship if its for the purpose of spiritual renewal to prepare us Christians to go back out there and do battle for the kingdom. Why are Wesleyans going to Brooksville? to learn more and to be encouraged so that they can make relationships with unsaved retirees in Florida? If so, great! If not, then why?
I agree with Gerry that the real question is "why retire?" John Piper's book, Don't Waste Your Life, is a good source on this question.
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