Once in a while readers like to make general comments on the ministry or churches or to me that are not specifically related to the week's article... that is what this is for.
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21 comments:
Misuse of Authority in the name of God:
Having lived all week and since about 6 a.m. this morning (it is now 11:42) with continued beeping in my home, I've come to realize that holiness is no holiness at all. Abuse in the name of God is a given within the holiness realms and obvioulsy allowed.
Look at the woman who killed her children because of sin. Look at the cult that beat a 7 year old child to death because they accused him of masturbation and he continually denied it. Look at the religions that force teens to marry old men or go into mental institutions.
All this evil in the name of holiness and God. Continued beeping in my home as if I live in a prison in the name of holiness cannot be justified by any law of God.
Somehow I missed that point in the holiness church doctrine. Now I realized why folks no longer want the "old time religions of holiness". Old timers, like the old time religion, is proving deadly.
I guess the person who said if you forget history, you are doomed to repeat it. We forgot what religion did to folks in America when it killed many who did embrace its beliefs. Oh God, save our nation by a return to leadership without Jesus Christ!
Anon:
THANKS for posting that comments here... that is precisely what this area is for...gereal posts, complaints, insights on anything you want to say... people read this too, and it helps having the comments here instead of in the regular posts that won't last after a month or so... Thanks for using this board for your message... maybe someone will respond, but even if not, many read these according to the data.
Dr. Drury:
Thanks so much for your openness! I greatly appreciate your kindness as it is hard, and becoming even harder, to find folks who will reach out even when they may be uncomfortable with a person or their topic.
I'm sure others will appreciate your open door/comment page!!!
Thanks again!
Keith...yer "archive" isn;t working. I wanted to leave a comment about your excellent article on Emergents...but I cannot get to it.
Can you fix that or repost it???
It was really great.
I must say, I am tired of the hatefulness of holines in the name of God.
Having lived for almost 2 full days with beeping in my home as punishment because I will not meet a standard of holiness that has been set for me by "christian" people and because things are removed from my home for the same reason (Dr. Phil type punishments), I've come to realize it is nothing but a full lie under the disguise of truth and it is therefore something I no longer desire to be.
For those looking into it, beware. It seems to be from many aspects extremely dangerous.
Mac,
Sorry, there is no archives here... comments close on posts after a week, or a month, or whenever I geta round to cutting-and-pasting the comments into a document for the home web page www.tuesdaycolumn.com --there you will find the comments that came in on that article the first week or two after it was posted. (remember I am an Wesleyan..so there is no eternal security for posts here ;-)
Having continued to live with the psychological rape in my home as a result of the controlled beeping (a.k.a., my controlled rat house for Dr. Phil-type research), I have come to the conclusion that holiness is all about rape!!!!
All about destroying folks in the name of God and the laws of God.
All about hatred of anyone who does not meet one's standards.
All about destruction of anyone who does not choose to believe the "holiness" doctrines.
Rape, regardless of the type, is fully acceptable and encouraged in christian realms....all christian realms. It is all about destroying the inner person in any way possible so leadership can reconstruct their own identity within them the same as the religion of psychology and the same as islamic terrorists.
Oh God, turn the organizations under the title of your church over fully to the devil! Lord, make christian psychology illegal in America!!!!! Lord, make christianity and holiness a thing of the past in America.
Can you help us know what you mean by the "beeping" you mention? I'm not completely clear on this... maybe if you explained that it could help me understand something more. I think I can catch some of what you are saying, but I've not been clear on the beeping.
Keith,
No I cannot. I have been accused of all kinds of things as a result of it.
There is an electrical control outside of my home controlled by someone else and I'm manipulated according to it.
When they are highly pissed, they turn the volume as loud as possible. When they are less pissed, they turn it down and they run it for hours on end. And, there are holiness folk involved.
Christianity is a farse! Christianity is a lie! Holiness is a lie!
Everything you do in life related to christianity and holiness is by force.
Truthfully, I do not believe your concern is real. The day I'm out from under christianity is the day I will celebrate. And, that will happen!!!!!
Never again will I ever darken the door of a christian church. Never again will I believe that holiness makes one good in their heart! It is all a lie.
The goal of christianity is utter destruction and you will achieve it by any means possible.
I was told by a Wesleyan pastor that the church would intentionally destroy me...that they have done at all costs.
Keith:
Thanks for the open webpage. This is the end of the road for me related to the church and especially holiness folk.
I wish the church well in its future efforts and thank God I am now free to walk away from this organization for good.
God bless!
G.K. Chesterton said that Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and not tried.
Fluffy
Dr. Drury:
Thanks for proving to me that no victim has an open door in the Wesleyan church. Your open door, like all other related things in christianity for its victims, is a lie.
Never again will I be part of christianity or religion! And my recommendation is that others walk away for good as well.
Dr. Drury,
Sadly, I found walking away from the church this time to be one of the easiest things I've ever done. That is very scary as it means that the church means nothing to me deep in my soul any longer it also means that God will not be glorified in the way in which He desired in this situation.
So, the truth is, I'm not welcome back! I can never be part of the Wesleyan church again.
I wish you well in your outreach!
I think it is also reflects a sad truth...that God's Spirit is not any longer moving in any christian leadership in a way that can draw hearts -- mine or others. All has become nothing more than movement and manipulation. Ichobod! I watched this same thing happen in the Wesleyan church I was forced to attend as well! Whether one wants to believe it or not, God will remove His Spirit and blessing.
Anonymous: You say you walked away from the Wesleyan church (perhaps also the "Holiness movement"... perhaps also Christianity?) and it sounds like you are hurt.
I just want to bid you farewell. I hope you find a better denomination or movement somewhere. I am certainly not trying to make you go back to some church that was evil or wrong. my advice is to just "move on" -- almost one out of every ten people in all denominations leave their church in a given year--you have plenty fo company--so just move on to the Baptist churc, or to the Catholic church or whatever--that is your perrogative. NO use living life looking in the rear view mirror at a church that you feel is evil...just go find one that is good.
Hi, sorry I haven't read your comments in a while. Thanks for your permission to leave. I do like your "holiness heart" it is what has so amazed me about holiness folk...that holiness heart. It has such a deceitful way of destroying and hurting others while looking like it is love and calling itself holy and perfect. I've watched it destroy so many!
Hurt, maybe, but I was really hoping and praying in my heart of hearts for a revival in the holiness church -- in the church that had captured my heart. I've given up on that! I have moved on. Just so you know, I never move unless God allows it. I no longer have a church and probably never will again. But now, I have something much better and something that I'll never walk away from and something that will never hurt me.
And best of all, I now know what a move of God really looks like. All the holiness in the world could never buy that and that is something I never saw in the holiness church.
Anonymous,
Tell me what a move of God really looks like.
Fluffy
Keith,
I read the blog between Ken S. and the former Wesleyan. My questions deal with your statement that each has a radically different view of God and the interpretation of scripture. In the past I think you've stated there is only a 5% difference between Wesley and Calvin. Does this 5% lead to radically different positions? Have you modified you view especially in light of the recent increased popularity of Calvinism in American Evangelicalism?
Stu
5% can be enough to produce a radically different view of God... like a 5% difference in degrees of a rocket, when only going 20 miles they are still fairly near--when going to the moon they become far apart. The 5% is still significant, though on the "fundamentals" --those things in the apostle's creed I bet Calvinists and Arminians are in 100% agreement... long after the basic creed men became more talkative about God and more room for differences emerged. At least that's my take
We can all agree on the Apostles Creed well beyond Calvinist and Arminian groups.
I so like the differences between Christian groups. The differences invite further study and investigation that support the life of the mind and heart. I am more offended by those that claim the differences don't make a difference than those who say my Calvinistic orientation is unbiblical or not logical.
We can always pull out the "Love Wins" trump card when things get too nasty, but maybe we should save the card for the end.
Stuart
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